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Stumbled across this compound called PD-137889 while reading just now and the more I learn about it the more it appears to be a cheaper, far more potent, yet nevertheless strikingly similar compound to ketamine and PCP pharmacologically. Apparently it is already used often in the laboratory on animal models, specifically for it’s similar MOA to PCP. It definitely crosses the BBB readily and I could not find any pharmacokinetic data that suggests severe toxicity (although neurotoxicity is always a concern when it comes to NMDA-antagonists). So if the half-life is atleast equal to that of ketamine but substantially lower than that of memantine or PCP, I feel like this would be a really exciting compound to explore. Any thoughts?
Most people prefer other psychedelics to NBOMes because of differing subjective effects. Likewise, it seems that morphinan opioids are much more enjoyable than fentalogues. Sure you get more drugged for your buck, but you might be sacrificing recreational value.
I’m not sure they’re very fair to compare. L is a triptamine. Nbome is a group of phenylthalamines. There are very psychedelic phenylthalamines that many people enjoy like the 2-c series.
LSD contains an indole and a shadow of the tryptamine molecule but it also contains a shadow of the phenethylamine molecule. It is best described as a lysergamide. I am not debating that there are more enjoyable drugs than LSD or other lysergamides, because many people prefer psilocin/4-AcO, 4-HO-MET, or 2C-B. I am just saying that most people prefer LSD to 25x-NBOMe compounds. Many people I wager would enjoy 4x-xxT or 2C-x more than 25x
I am more more experienced tryptamines and LSD. I’d say things like 4-Aco and psilocin tend to be more euphoric and have an easier headspace.
Lysergimdes can be the same but also can be difficult. The range of experience with Lysgimides seems more broad and can be very surreal and sometimes dysphoric. A little uncomfortably stimulating at times as well. Still very well worthwhile, just can be more challenging.
I always thought it was the opposite. I mean I haven´t tried any triptamines yet, but I had the information that i´d have to to treat with more “respect” if going to do some mushrooms that doing acid. Psychedelic speaking I only have experience with 1P-LSD so I can´t imagine how more euphoric can a trip can get lol haha , that´s nice since from what I read from here I have got the impression i should pray before taking 4-aco-dmt lmao (that´s mainly because i haven´t yet tried although I have a lot of curiosity, after reading so many posts it just seems I should do a whole ritual of set and setting before tripping on that stuff, but probably now after reading your experience i think it might be because people do only reports when things go wrong)
Regarding what you say about uncomfortably stimulating i only have experienced if dosing too low (below 100ug) .
I can at least say that anything has to be more enjoyable than NBOMe drugs. My first 2 experiences with psychedelics were 25I-NBOMe. Being ignorant, I thought it was LSD because that’s what he sold it to me as, so I thought that LSD just happened to do those things and be that mind meltingly strong. After of course doing 2C-E (which was also not exactly enjoyable), LSD-25, N,N DMT, Bufotenine, and another random lysergimide, I have found that all of those were better than NBomb. Now I can’t wait for my mescaline to arrive to see how close it is to L, seen as how LSD used to be called mescaline when it was first becoming a big thing.
However isn’t really a consensus to classify lysergamides as other class, and a lot of people still consider lysergic acid derivatives tryptamines. Shulgin classified lysergamides as tryptamines in Tihkal, and scientific studies refer to lsd like a tryptamine. Lysergamides afaik have got good afinity for 5ht1a receptors like tryptamines, and unlike phenethylamines. For example if we see the LD50 is more similar to tryptamines which are in general, with exceptions (aMT, 5meoamt, aET, etc) higher than for phenthylamines. Yeah, we have to classify lsd and analogues in other group, but i can’t be sure if we can’t consider all of this group a family in the tryptamines class.
From my research and understanding, the Dea regularly intercepts sheets of L- they always test and the average single blotter today contains 75-80 mics. They used to publicly post a report called the microgram bulletin. But experience can vary with L based on the quality Needlepoint being the highest at 95-99% pure, then fluff 85-95. From there it starts to equal out with silver lavender and amber. With the lowest hovering at 70-75%. That fluff is super clean and smooth and ver colorful, silver was clean and long lasting, and Amber absolutely rocked my world. Just a rougher come down. Back in the day the average hit contained 150mcgs. But some contained up to 250 per. There is a certain point with blotter that only so much of the drug can fit/fill/ or soak into it. You can always hit up ecstasy data , they test everything now. Depending what the sender paid for the in the test. They now list mic and mg quantities within a specific drug. Not just weight and percentages. Honestly I prefer substituted lysergamides. You always know what you’re getting, it’s from a lab. And it’s fire. It’s also fun to explore just how a slight substitution can modify the experience. Try 100ug of 1-p with 100ug of ETH. Eth-lad and al-lad are totally unique. The other big two are almost indistinguishable from L. But damn people were tripping back in the day 3-4 hits at 150-250ug . Shout out to the old chemists making all current lysergamides avail today. I have a hunch that the trypts and especially the lysergamides ain’t coming from China.
LSD is pretty safe. There’s one case study where a group had a bag of LSD powder and snorted lines thinking it was cocaine and they all survived with medical support.
Marijuana is about as safe as drugs can get. If you smoked your entire body weight of herb in about 5 minutes you might overdose, but I think your lungs would fall out first.
Meanwhile you can buy enough alcohol or caffeine to overdose on from your corner store.
They were decent for what they were not as I said elsewhere in the thread they are phenylthalamines so they have very different effect than triptamine. I see nbome as 2-cx’s big more potent brother. If you like nbome you will probably enjoy the 2-c series. Or even the dox series. They all have there time and place like any drug
I quite liked 25cnbome, not as much 25i, but I wouldn’t say they were better than any lysergamide.. Also mxe is overrated, I like dck and 2f-dck better. Somehow 2f-dck has become my favorite dissociative since starting to use it frequently. I can’t say this absolutely because dissociatives are highly personal, everyone experiences them so differently. But most people who say RIP mxe or act like it’s oodles more great than every other dissociative ever made are highly exaggerating what it was.
I used it for years and I like 2f-dck better. Sure, mxe was a great and available drug. But good God do people blow it out of proportion. I’d bet a lot of people who do haven’t even ever done it in the first place or used it a handful of times..
What OP is speaking of sounds interesting. I’d try it lol just add it to my extensive list of attempted/consistently used dissociative anesthetics
I wasn’t around when MXE was popular but something I’ve read is that it was the first real alternative to ketamine. That’s why everyone jumped on it and why everyone still holds it on a pedestal (or at least this was some other users’ theory). Without having tried it though I have no idea if it’s overrated or not
2f-dck is probably my least favorite disso though. I tried a couple of grams and it just felt like a weaker, more expensive, more confusing and colder ketamine. My favorite is either 3-MeO-PCE or 3-HO-PCP
Back when DCK was $30/g and the batch(s) were more crystalline than ever, my pine tree was administered it many times throughout a summer at a whole spectrum of doses. First time the subject had full-on “hole”s despite hundreds of experiences with IN and IM pharm-grade ket. Even at small doses, dramatic visual distortions would occur – like seeing the TV expand until it looks like the size of a building or you feeling like an infinitesimally small point at the center of an elongating and inflating body.
That’s not true at all. I was there the whole time. DCK was certainly less available and I do think MXE is more enjoyable than DCK(maybe.. idk because they’e both pretty awesome), however many people enjoy dck more than mxe. Dissos are totally different for every person, more so than any other type of drug.
Personally I think 3-meo-pcp belongs in the trash. But that’s only my personal experience with it. Some people swear by it. Aside from that 3-meo and mxe are on totally opposite sides of the disso anesthetic spectrum. One is great for holing and the other is not. Two different experiences really.
“People” never thought that dck and 3-meo-pcp were trash. There has never been a general consensus on these and if you’ve been around enough you have seen how much the opinions on these substances vary person to person. Generalizing one as “everyone thinks it is garbage” is not accurate. Even diphenidine and methoxphenidine have a following in some places. MXE was just more available because the people synthing it were making money off of it. It could have just as easily been a situation where the chemists decided to back DCK instead of MXE back then, making dck more prevalent and mxe less so. And if that was the case, your statement would say “MXE and 3-meo-pcp were all thought of to be basically garbage until dck disappeared”
Nah, MXE was the best ACH to hit the RC market to date. It was potent enough to be cheap but not so potent it was easy to overdose. The effects profile was like the perfect blend of disso fx. Yes it’s subjective to an extent but a lot of people feel like nothing has surpassed MXE in the disso space.
I wish when people made comments like this when their opinion clearly only accounts for about 10% of all drug users they would put a disclaimer, or at the very least just “IMO”.
You seriously prefer 25i to LSD, AL-LAD, ETH-LAD, 1P-LSD ect ect? Because your comment does imply that you’ve tried all of these lysergamides.
I tried lsd, eth-lad not al-lad, but I just found nbome to have the most amazing visuals and euphoria in comparision. Lysergamides always felt cleaner don’t get me wrong but for example , I’d giggle a bit on lsd but on nbome I’d be rolling on the floor laughing for hours no joke! Uncontrollable. The visuals on lsd would be swirling, some colours, but mostly a headspace change, where on nbome it would be full 3D colourful geometric patterns appearing. And nbomes headspace is so damn euphoric, like I know the meaning of life type shit. It just feels like a fuller psychedelic experience to me. Obviously there were the side effects with nbome, vasoconstriction, tightness in chest, definitely bigger body load but oh so worth it. Will remember those nbome trips for the rest of my life with fondness some of the greatest experiences ever.